Comments on: And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death Held Illimitable Dominion Over All http://www.wholesomereading.com/2008/10/29/and-darkness-and-decay-and-the-red-death-held-illimitable-dominion-over-all/ Musings on culture and politics by baseball writer Steven Goldman Sat, 19 May 2012 09:52:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Rob in CT http://www.wholesomereading.com/2008/10/29/and-darkness-and-decay-and-the-red-death-held-illimitable-dominion-over-all/#comment-183 Rob in CT Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:18:23 +0000 http://www.wholesomereading.com/?p=165#comment-183 Shaun, I've taken to using the term "fiscally responsible" because I'm aware that "fiscally conservative" has become code for something else... though many people (not politican pundits/operatives) still use it to mean what I once did: spending within our means. I use responsible instead of conservative b/c I think it's responsible to pay for what you spend, via taxation. If you want to spend X on some program, fine, convince people to pay higher taxes for it (or cut spending elsewhere) - that's the basic idea of PAYGO. Ideally, we would run modest surplusses in good times and run modest deficits in bad times, and it would even out. Unfortunately, neither party can see more than ~2 years in front of their noses, and thus we have large deficits in good times and massive ones in bad times. Shaun,

I’ve taken to using the term “fiscally responsible” because I’m aware that “fiscally conservative” has become code for something else… though many people (not politican pundits/operatives) still use it to mean what I once did: spending within our means. I use responsible instead of conservative b/c I think it’s responsible to pay for what you spend, via taxation. If you want to spend X on some program, fine, convince people to pay higher taxes for it (or cut spending elsewhere) - that’s the basic idea of PAYGO.

Ideally, we would run modest surplusses in good times and run modest deficits in bad times, and it would even out. Unfortunately, neither party can see more than ~2 years in front of their noses, and thus we have large deficits in good times and massive ones in bad times.

]]> By: Louis http://www.wholesomereading.com/2008/10/29/and-darkness-and-decay-and-the-red-death-held-illimitable-dominion-over-all/#comment-180 Louis Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:05:46 +0000 http://www.wholesomereading.com/?p=165#comment-180 My politics are way left of his, but I have a lot of respect for Christopher Buckley - son of William F. Buckley, founder of the National Review Online - after his endorsement of Obama & subsequent resignation from NRO. It's not so much the endorsement of Obama that I appreciate, but the reasoning behind it--the fact that he recognizes that the Republican party has abandoned many core conservative principles over the last eight years. I think (or at least hope) that other moderate Republicans are coming to the same conclusion this election. My politics are way left of his, but I have a lot of respect for Christopher Buckley - son of William F. Buckley, founder of the National Review Online - after his endorsement of Obama & subsequent resignation from NRO. It’s not so much the endorsement of Obama that I appreciate, but the reasoning behind it–the fact that he recognizes that the Republican party has abandoned many core conservative principles over the last eight years. I think (or at least hope) that other moderate Republicans are coming to the same conclusion this election.

]]> By: Shaun P. http://www.wholesomereading.com/2008/10/29/and-darkness-and-decay-and-the-red-death-held-illimitable-dominion-over-all/#comment-179 Shaun P. Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:51:47 +0000 http://www.wholesomereading.com/?p=165#comment-179 Rob, I think your description of the current GOP is exactly right. I'm curious, though, as to how you define the term "fiscally conservative". I think the current reactionary GOP has adopted that phrase as code for "destroy all federal entitlement programs and the federal social safety net". That's not how I see it, though. In fact, I would wager to say that "fiscally conservative"/social moderate is the very definition of a current Democrat. Rob, I think your description of the current GOP is exactly right. I’m curious, though, as to how you define the term “fiscally conservative”. I think the current reactionary GOP has adopted that phrase as code for “destroy all federal entitlement programs and the federal social safety net”. That’s not how I see it, though.

In fact, I would wager to say that “fiscally conservative”/social moderate is the very definition of a current Democrat.

]]> By: Rob in CT http://www.wholesomereading.com/2008/10/29/and-darkness-and-decay-and-the-red-death-held-illimitable-dominion-over-all/#comment-178 Rob in CT Thu, 30 Oct 2008 14:12:44 +0000 http://www.wholesomereading.com/?p=165#comment-178 I hope that GOP moderates fight back for control of their party... I know some, and I like them, and I want them in charge. That said, I don't think it will happen yet. I think the GOP will go harder right for a bit, whether they chose Palin or not. The consequence of that, hopefully, will be time in the wilderness, followed by a huge shift back to moderation. I want a fiscally conservative/socially moderate GOP in opposition, and sometimes in power. But the current GOP is fiscally reactionary/socially reactionary. I hope that GOP moderates fight back for control of their party… I know some, and I like them, and I want them in charge.

That said, I don’t think it will happen yet. I think the GOP will go harder right for a bit, whether they chose Palin or not. The consequence of that, hopefully, will be time in the wilderness, followed by a huge shift back to moderation.

I want a fiscally conservative/socially moderate GOP in opposition, and sometimes in power. But the current GOP is fiscally reactionary/socially reactionary.

]]> By: Shaun P. http://www.wholesomereading.com/2008/10/29/and-darkness-and-decay-and-the-red-death-held-illimitable-dominion-over-all/#comment-177 Shaun P. Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:34:03 +0000 http://www.wholesomereading.com/?p=165#comment-177 And as for comprise, as I've argued with my brother on many occasions, its impossible to have real comprise if one side (coughTHEGOPcough) refuses to EVER budge from their position. Of course it also doesn't help when the other side, as you rightly point out Steven, just kept giving in when faced with such an immovable object. It was pathetic to see, and it still ticks me off. AFAIC, Pelosi and Reid both ought to be removed from their leadership positions. Neither of them ever bothered to even try to lead, or to offer any real resistance to Dubya. And as for comprise, as I’ve argued with my brother on many occasions, its impossible to have real comprise if one side (coughTHEGOPcough) refuses to EVER budge from their position.

Of course it also doesn’t help when the other side, as you rightly point out Steven, just kept giving in when faced with such an immovable object. It was pathetic to see, and it still ticks me off. AFAIC, Pelosi and Reid both ought to be removed from their leadership positions. Neither of them ever bothered to even try to lead, or to offer any real resistance to Dubya.

]]> By: Shaun P. http://www.wholesomereading.com/2008/10/29/and-darkness-and-decay-and-the-red-death-held-illimitable-dominion-over-all/#comment-176 Shaun P. Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:30:19 +0000 http://www.wholesomereading.com/?p=165#comment-176 For me, the real question is, will the moderates in the Republican party (not the Religious Right and not the "we must end all taxes and destroy all regulations" Right) finally wrest control of their party again - or break away and fight for their beliefs? I'm amazed that moderate Republicans fell into line for as long as they did, for they were marginalized and then ignored at every turn by the GOP - and their candidates were either given no help or worse, in many cases, ClubForGrowth-backed candidates tried to (and did) defeat them in the primaries. The funny part is, what would have been considered a moderate Republican according to the right-left spectrum of twenty or thirty years ago is now, thanks to the Gingrich/DeLay/Dubya shift of the GOP to the extreme far right, a Democrat. For me, the real question is, will the moderates in the Republican party (not the Religious Right and not the “we must end all taxes and destroy all regulations” Right) finally wrest control of their party again - or break away and fight for their beliefs?

I’m amazed that moderate Republicans fell into line for as long as they did, for they were marginalized and then ignored at every turn by the GOP - and their candidates were either given no help or worse, in many cases, ClubForGrowth-backed candidates tried to (and did) defeat them in the primaries.

The funny part is, what would have been considered a moderate Republican according to the right-left spectrum of twenty or thirty years ago is now, thanks to the Gingrich/DeLay/Dubya shift of the GOP to the extreme far right, a Democrat.

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