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	<title>Comments on: Guest Blog: Taking Issue with the Sainted Pillars of the Left and Right</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.wholesomereading.com/2010/03/31/guest-blog-taking-issue-with-the-sainted-pillars-of-the-left-and-right/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.wholesomereading.com/2010/03/31/guest-blog-taking-issue-with-the-sainted-pillars-of-the-left-and-right/</link>
	<description>Musings on culture and politics by baseball writer Steven Goldman</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 11:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MG</title>
		<link>http://www.wholesomereading.com/2010/03/31/guest-blog-taking-issue-with-the-sainted-pillars-of-the-left-and-right/#comment-1890</link>
		<dc:creator>MG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wholesomereading.com/?p=707#comment-1890</guid>
		<description>Interesting points of view expressed here.  I agree with Stephen (and Louis) that the US has not taken a leftward turn.  If you look at the poll numbers where specific questions are asked about issues ranging from the role of the federal government, taxes, spending, the deficit, healthcare, abortion, gay marriage, etc., etc., the US has been consistently right-leaning throughout my 40-year lifetime.

What has changed over the past 1-3 years is that we have a much more liberal government, which has taken this country in a leftward direction that is almost irreversible.  Once you create a multi-trillion-dollar entitlement program, it is difficult (if not impossible) to take it away.

Despite the poll numbers, where an overwhelming majority of those polled were against this healthcare bill, the Democrats in congress, along with President Obama, forced this bill through regardless, using a parliamentary trick to do so.  That doesn't sit right with most Americans.

Americans elected President Obama not because they agreed with his liberal agenda of bigger government, higher taxes, and more government intervention.  They elected him because the economy was suffering, and because they wanted to be "a part of history."  Now that the economy is in even worse shape, the Republicans will likely regain all three houses in 2012.  Hopefully, they can reverse some of the damage that has been done (but I'm not counting on it.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting points of view expressed here.  I agree with Stephen (and Louis) that the US has not taken a leftward turn.  If you look at the poll numbers where specific questions are asked about issues ranging from the role of the federal government, taxes, spending, the deficit, healthcare, abortion, gay marriage, etc., etc., the US has been consistently right-leaning throughout my 40-year lifetime.</p>
<p>What has changed over the past 1-3 years is that we have a much more liberal government, which has taken this country in a leftward direction that is almost irreversible.  Once you create a multi-trillion-dollar entitlement program, it is difficult (if not impossible) to take it away.</p>
<p>Despite the poll numbers, where an overwhelming majority of those polled were against this healthcare bill, the Democrats in congress, along with President Obama, forced this bill through regardless, using a parliamentary trick to do so.  That doesn&#8217;t sit right with most Americans.</p>
<p>Americans elected President Obama not because they agreed with his liberal agenda of bigger government, higher taxes, and more government intervention.  They elected him because the economy was suffering, and because they wanted to be &#8220;a part of history.&#8221;  Now that the economy is in even worse shape, the Republicans will likely regain all three houses in 2012.  Hopefully, they can reverse some of the damage that has been done (but I&#8217;m not counting on it.)</p>
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		<title>By: Louis</title>
		<link>http://www.wholesomereading.com/2010/03/31/guest-blog-taking-issue-with-the-sainted-pillars-of-the-left-and-right/#comment-1851</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Apr 2010 17:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wholesomereading.com/?p=707#comment-1851</guid>
		<description>I disagree that the country has permanently shifted to the left these past two election cycles.  Relatedly, I believe that broad-stroke attempts to portray the electorate, or the media, as having turned or as being biased (in either direction) are almost always mischaracterizations of the actual political reality.  Such shifts do happen, but they're glacial in nature: they happen over the course of one or two generations, not one or two election cycles (like the South's shift to voting Republican).  The 24 hour news cycle, always clamoring about the next big trend/event, probably exacerbates the sense that permanent shifts are happening when in fact we're just witnessing tiny swings of the pendulum back and forth.

And ultimately, that's what I think we saw in the last two elections: not a permanent leftward shift in the electorate but a reaction to the ineptitude of the party in power.  Just as many now expect the Dems to lose ground in the upcoming mid-term elections.

Personally, from my half-informed position, I think the medium-to-long term trend (10-40 years or so) has been for the country to become more liberal, socially, but more conservative, fiscally.  I may not actually be correct about this, but the point is that the electorate and/or media needn't trend, inexorably, in one direction only.  Lots of complex, even contradictory, forces are at work in determining its disposition.  Decrying things like "the liberal media," or "the country's conservative culture," is often mainly a way of registering one's astonishment that so many others could have such different beliefs from your own (what you consider to be superior) ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that the country has permanently shifted to the left these past two election cycles.  Relatedly, I believe that broad-stroke attempts to portray the electorate, or the media, as having turned or as being biased (in either direction) are almost always mischaracterizations of the actual political reality.  Such shifts do happen, but they&#8217;re glacial in nature: they happen over the course of one or two generations, not one or two election cycles (like the South&#8217;s shift to voting Republican).  The 24 hour news cycle, always clamoring about the next big trend/event, probably exacerbates the sense that permanent shifts are happening when in fact we&#8217;re just witnessing tiny swings of the pendulum back and forth.</p>
<p>And ultimately, that&#8217;s what I think we saw in the last two elections: not a permanent leftward shift in the electorate but a reaction to the ineptitude of the party in power.  Just as many now expect the Dems to lose ground in the upcoming mid-term elections.</p>
<p>Personally, from my half-informed position, I think the medium-to-long term trend (10-40 years or so) has been for the country to become more liberal, socially, but more conservative, fiscally.  I may not actually be correct about this, but the point is that the electorate and/or media needn&#8217;t trend, inexorably, in one direction only.  Lots of complex, even contradictory, forces are at work in determining its disposition.  Decrying things like &#8220;the liberal media,&#8221; or &#8220;the country&#8217;s conservative culture,&#8221; is often mainly a way of registering one&#8217;s astonishment that so many others could have such different beliefs from your own (what you consider to be superior) ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun P.</title>
		<link>http://www.wholesomereading.com/2010/03/31/guest-blog-taking-issue-with-the-sainted-pillars-of-the-left-and-right/#comment-1846</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 21:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wholesomereading.com/?p=707#comment-1846</guid>
		<description>Very well put, Mike K - especially the last paragraph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well put, Mike K - especially the last paragraph.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike K</title>
		<link>http://www.wholesomereading.com/2010/03/31/guest-blog-taking-issue-with-the-sainted-pillars-of-the-left-and-right/#comment-1845</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 20:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wholesomereading.com/?p=707#comment-1845</guid>
		<description>I think Scott makes rational points. Where he and I differ is that he thinks the US will have to rein in spending, but I think it will have to raise taxes.

Steven, to your point #1: frustrated as I am with the current administration, I think it's hard to argue that the country didn't demonstrate a leftward swing the the past two election cycles.  It's not that Dems or Repubs became more liberal, it's that independents voted Democratic in large numbers. You can argue that Democrat doesn't really equal Liberal-with-a-capital-L, but surely it's more liberal that Republican.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say that Obama's not a liberal. It's just that that he's above all a pragmatist.  I think Nate made a convincing argument that this was just about as good as a HCR bill as could have been passed in the current environment. It's a disgusting fact but a fact no less that the filibuster + a loose democratic coalition that includes Blue Dogs and a Lieberman = a less Democratic Senate than would appear at first glance, 60 seats (now 59) or not.  I think DADT will prove to be a long term win for Obama. 

Where you and I agree 100% is that I am absolutely horrified and outraged that the previous administration is being let off the hook for it's legal and moral sins. Fuck pragmatism in that case--the precedent undermines the foundations of our democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Scott makes rational points. Where he and I differ is that he thinks the US will have to rein in spending, but I think it will have to raise taxes.</p>
<p>Steven, to your point #1: frustrated as I am with the current administration, I think it&#8217;s hard to argue that the country didn&#8217;t demonstrate a leftward swing the the past two election cycles.  It&#8217;s not that Dems or Repubs became more liberal, it&#8217;s that independents voted Democratic in large numbers. You can argue that Democrat doesn&#8217;t really equal Liberal-with-a-capital-L, but surely it&#8217;s more liberal that Republican.</p>
<p>Also, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s fair to say that Obama&#8217;s not a liberal. It&#8217;s just that that he&#8217;s above all a pragmatist.  I think Nate made a convincing argument that this was just about as good as a HCR bill as could have been passed in the current environment. It&#8217;s a disgusting fact but a fact no less that the filibuster + a loose democratic coalition that includes Blue Dogs and a Lieberman = a less Democratic Senate than would appear at first glance, 60 seats (now 59) or not.  I think DADT will prove to be a long term win for Obama. </p>
<p>Where you and I agree 100% is that I am absolutely horrified and outraged that the previous administration is being let off the hook for it&#8217;s legal and moral sins. Fuck pragmatism in that case&#8211;the precedent undermines the foundations of our democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.wholesomereading.com/2010/03/31/guest-blog-taking-issue-with-the-sainted-pillars-of-the-left-and-right/#comment-1844</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wholesomereading.com/?p=707#comment-1844</guid>
		<description>It's always funny to me that these folks never worried about the "size and scope" of government when Sainted Ronnie and Bush pere et fils were ballooning our deficits and wielding our military against any third world tyrant that pissed them off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s always funny to me that these folks never worried about the &#8220;size and scope&#8221; of government when Sainted Ronnie and Bush pere et fils were ballooning our deficits and wielding our military against any third world tyrant that pissed them off.</p>
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